We had 8 years of morons promising to flee to Canada and New Zealand because of GeorgeMcBushChimpyHalliburton. Now that we have a new idiot in charge, a different group of people want to haul ass.Give it a rest, people. Leave already, or fight for what you believe in. I can't stand your whining.
(Update 1: I get home from work and find an Instalanche. Cool! Thanks, Glenn. Update 2: This made my day. My comment was picked up by National Review, a publication I greatly enjoy. I miss Bill Buckley, a very sharp man who was devastating in picking apart leftist beliefs but did so with a friendly glint in his eyes. His civility needs to be brought back into the political debate on both sides.)
50 comments:
I've lived in other countries. Several during my life. And not as military or a highly paid expat from a big American company -- I was a regular resident, living in regular apartments and paying regular local taxes and doing all the normal resident paperwork and licenses and aggro.
I can't speak for Costa Rica, having been there only for holiday, but for the "first world" countries I lived, I can tell people this:
The taxes were higher than here, even higher than Obama's proposals. Guns were far more restricted; in many cases "free speech" somewhat restricted as well. Costs of food, consumer goods and utilities were awfully high. (Exception, Australia, especially for food -- good, fresh, and cheap! They made up for that with lowish salaries.) Material living standards were generally lower; quality of life could be higher in other terms.
As for Costa Rica, 15% marginal tax rate (once you hit $7k/year, not month) sounds OK till you add 13% sales tax. Now you're at US levels. And the fine public services I saw in Costa Rica made Alabama look prosperous (maybe it is, come to think of it).
OK, maybe New Zealand -- till the next change in government and a lean to the left as they are prone to do. I just knew too many Kiwi techies who felt they had to leave there to get anywhere in life.
So I'm with you, Lou, let 'em leave the US if they want and give it a try (I did for a while, and it was fun, almost didn't come back) but for them to sit there there just whining...
NoVa, the thing that the Brian Boyko's don't grasp is New Zealand and Canada don't want them! These countries demand that immigrants have strong financial assets, are under a certain age and weigh less than xxx pounds. Remember that news story last year about the tubby Brit couple that were denied Australian residency because hubby weighed 300 lbs?
We get to vote every four years, we'll last that long. Could get bad, maybe, but we'll have a new one in 4 to 8 years anyway, so rather than run, harass the Obamatons for the next 4.
I plan to leave this country for Tashkent the minute I'm charged with mortgage fraud.
It would be a new life back in the old country for me. With a fresh new credit rating as the best thing of all! ;-p
TO: Lou Minatti, et al.
RE: There's....
...something of a difference between the Alec Baldwins of the previous eight years and these people.
The former were childish in their disagreement with a president they didn't vote for.
The latter are looking at a financial crisis that threatens their economic well being and considering a location that would enhance their buying power....what little remains of it.
Hope that helps.....
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[No man's life, liberty or fortune is safe while our legislature is in session. -- Benjamin Franklin]
P.S. THIS Congress and [mis]administration are proving the truth to THAT....
P.P.S. There are advantages and disadvantages to every possible position and/or location one can take. The challenge is to identify all of them for each course of action and decide what works best for you.
These people are doing 'brain-drizzle'. And hopefully, they'll gather all crucial facts before making a decision.
Even Alec Baldwin did that....after all....he's still with US.
The US has public insurrection from time to time and it gets handled quite promptly.
If there is some sort of collapse, the US is probably the best place to be.
TO: Anonymous, et al.
RE: [OT] Maybe....
"We get to vote every four years, we'll last that long. Could get bad, maybe, but we'll have a new one in 4 to 8 years anyway...." -- Anonymous
....then again....
....maybe not.
Worst case scenario?
There's an election in 2 years time. Said election will likely turn the Democrat Congress, Republican. This will stall Obama's efforts.
Therefore, if Obama is as 'evil' as some people think he is, he must implement whatever his 'evil designs' BEFORE that happens.
Not saying he is personally, but I'm keeping a experienced—27 years in the infantry and well trained at recognizing bad things when they happen, i.e., Intelligence Preparation of the Battlefield (IPB)—eye on what's going on. Looking for what we refer to, professionally, as 'key indicators'.
Some are already beginning to appear. So 'be prepared'....
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. If you see a Reichstag Fire event, that'll be what I'd consider a 'key indicator'. Especially if it's 'blamed' on "The Modern American Militia", vis-a-vis MICA's recent report.
People whining about their rights, whining about the government, whining about the country's direction. If it doesn't stop, I'm leaving. I'm sure I can find a country out there that doesn't allow it.
I've often thought of where we could go if things went bad in the US. I've been to several different countries, and short of Australia (who are having their own troubles), there isn't any other place I'd rather be than right here. If we can't survive here, we won't survive anywhere.
I want to escape to Costa Rica too,,,but to escape Obama....It's just a great freaking place.
Chuck, I am unfamiliar with the term "brain-drizzle" and wikipedia does nothing to enlighten me...
What does this interesting term mean?
Thank you.
But I'm a trillionaire in Zimbabwe, damn it! A TRILL...ION...AIRE! Who wouldn't want to pay off a militia for a nice piece of land and call their liberal brother-in-law back in the states and scoreboard him about being a TRILLIONAIRE!
Having lived as an expat (in Asia) for 10 years, I can tell you that if you are looking for lower taxes and less regulation, Asia is the only place worth considering. Everyone knows that the rest of the "Caucasian" countries (Europe, Australia, etc.) are more socialist than the U.S. Latin America has its issues and not much economy as well.
East Asia varies. Japan has high corporate taxes (50%) and high taxes on high income. Most of the rest of the East and South East Asian countries have taxes (both personal and corporate) around 25%. Taiwan is 15% and Hong Kong is, I believe, 17%. Mainland China as tax rates around 25%. Both Taiwan and Hong Kong have less regulation, in general, than the U.S. However you pay for it in the form of pollution and general messiness (as is typical for the Chinese). Singapore has tax rates of around 25%, is generally reasonable with regulation that affect business, and has lots of green regulation (which means that it is clean and you do not see the air). However, Singapore also has their compulsive saving scheme and has been known to involve itself in other social engineering attempts.
China is interesting. They call themselves "communist" but are probably less communist than most of the people reading this blog. Their business regulation is somewhat less than the U.S. and their tax rates are lower too. However, regulations are often still "opaque" (although they are trying to change this) and the government sometimes will come in and regulate an industry if they think it is getting out of hand (e.g. real estate speculation in Singapore). They will also restrict exports of a material or product they consider strategic (e.g. silicon material used in semiconductors as solar).
Of course, you need a marketable ability to live in Asia and make it. Engineering, accounting, or management is useful. Having something to sell, particularly technical, is useful as well. Learning the language is useful as well. I recommend Mandarin Chinese.
In general, East Asia (except for Japan, who bureaucrats are known for their intransigents) has lower tax rates and less business regulation than the U.S. (which is MUCH less than the rest of the "white" peoples world). However, corruption and pollution are still a problem in much of it (although it is getting better on both of these).
No Va: I, too, have lived abroad for a decade, been around the world twice, yada yada. I agree with what you say for the most part and would like to comment about living standards in the US. West Coast is beautiful!: grow up, get over it & learn Spanish yesterday. The midwestern culture is intolerable to outsiders--not just W. Allen--with large areas of poverty. The eastern seaboard is full of rude, anal donkeys and the crime is insane. Then there is, NoVa, the friendly & springlike realm of Alabama, which is booming you yankee buffoon! So, like, you know, enjoy that rust belt...dude!
I find it interesting that there are a number of other countries someone from the left would find enjoyable and comfortable to live in. Probably more so than in America. The right, however, is pretty much out of luck. America is as good as it gets if you want individual freedoms and smaller gov't.
Who was whining? I must have missed the whining.
I guess the story of Thanksgiving, where the pilgrims left an oppressive land to seek freedom was just a big whine-fest.
Whiners should all just shut up. It's irritating The Blogging Class (who all have legitimate complaints and could never be accused of whining).
Just because you leave the US does not mean you leave the IRS behind.
US citizen expats are still subject to US taxes, regardless of where they live. While there's an exemption on a certain amount of income that's earned and taxed in a foreign country, the exemption amount is of course subject to the whims of the government.
There *is* no escape.
+1 on the whining Pilgrims!
LOL.
Take that, Lou.
TO: Anonymous
RE: [OT] 'Brain-Drizzle'
"What does this interesting term mean?" -- Anonymous
It's like 'brain-storm', but lacks any real intensity. Let alone bright flashes of 'insight'.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary! -- James D. Nicoll]
Some of you make it sound as if things can be salvaged if and when the Republican Party is ever trusted with the government again.
I submit to you that George Bush and the GOP spent like drunken sailors when they had control of the budget, and will do so again if given the chance.
The only time Republicans seem to find their "small government" principles is when they have no chance of implementing them. And when they do, all they do is throw up cultural smokescreens like flag burning and Rerry Schiavo.
The Republican Party is not to be trusted.
I agree with you about the whining. I don't hear nearly as much whining about leaving the US from conservatives. My fear is that they are not whining, just leaving. We need all the productive hard working people we can get.
TO: jmatt
RE: [OT] Bush Spending
"I submit to you that George Bush and the GOP spent like drunken sailors when they had control of the budget, and will do so again if given the chance." -- jmatt
Well....
....they'll have a LONG way to go to beat what Obama has done in the last couple of months.
If you doubt that report. Check out THIS chart....
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-deficit-in-pictures/
RE: On-Topic
Still and all, it's going to take quite some time to recover from what Obama et al., have done. And that's going to require a LOT of people suffering through a LOT of difficulties.
Some of them, those who cannot stomach it and have the ability to do so, will flee.
Those of US who cannot see anyplace better we can get to will have to stay and tough it out.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Danger - if you meet it promptly and without flinching - you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never! -- Winston Churchill]
I left. Greetings from my new home in Dubai!
Not sure I am coming back until I decide to stop earning taxable income altogether.
BTW - I was upset with Bush for being so bad on tax & fiscal policy.
I am absolutely furious with Obama for making things much, much worse... Perhaps irrevocably so.
Not my problem anymore.
@kurt9
"China is interesting. They call themselves "communist" but are probably less communist than most of the people reading this blog. Their business regulation is somewhat less than the U.S. and their tax rates are lower too."
Does that "less communist" extend to free speech, dissent, and the people in prison for it? Does it also refer to the fact that China is still practices centralized government control over the business in their country?
The irony is that we prop up their communist regime with capitalist American dollars and a huge trade imbalance.
I spend half the year in Mexico for the climate, not for the free speech, gun laws, cost of food, or tax structure, but for the laid-back and pleasant lifestyle among lovely caring neighbors...i hope no one else comes here and screws up a good thing...I also spend a lot of time in Alabama who NoVa Sideliner disses...it too still has old-fashioned values and we hope Yankees will continue to remain ignorant of its appeal...
TO: sfcmac
RE: [OT] It's MUCH Worse....
"The irony is that we prop up their communist regime with capitalist American dollars and a huge trade imbalance." -- sfcmac
...than that.
Where do you think they're getting the money for their massive militarization.
You think that our selling scrap iron to the Japanese before Pearl Harbor was 'bad'? Just wait....
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[History repeats itself.....]
P.S. If you're thinking of moving to China to avoid Obama, be prepared to be rounded up and interned when the shooting starts.
As someone who fled long ago, I must agree that there is no escape from taxes. What does that tell us about our government?
Of course, I'm referring to the Federal Income Tax. By living in Thailand, I completely avoid sales taxes, excise taxes, luxury taxes, and all those other "incidental expenses" -- including FICA and Medicare at 15 percent.
You can get rid of EVERYTHING by giving up your citizenship, but watch out!! Your loyal government has been there before you, and have established a bunch of rules which make it utterly clear that their only interest in you is as a fleece-producing sheep.
This is actually true: if you appear at some American Embassy and toss your passport on the table and say "I am no longer an American," the people involved will not wonder WHY. They'll simply try to take you for every nickel you're worth.
Don't worry about it. No one's going anywhere. Just out of curiosity I googled the three Democrats listed from that first article you linked to. The tally?
Brian Boyko: This 2004 resident of Austin claimed he was looking at moving to Canada. Instead, he remained in Austin and wrote about video games.
Ian Mitroff: This 2004 resident of Los Angeles claimed he was also thinking of moving north. He did. To Oakland, where he set up a consulting firm.
Peggy Bowen: This 2004 lawyer in Santa Fe claimed she'd be moving south to Mexico. Instead she ended up working in the New Mexico Corrections system.
So no one budged. Of course, what did you expect? When did a Democrat ever live up to their promises?
speaking as an expat who is here for work, I'd rather be home.
Whenever dickheads said they were leaving the usa because of bush, it pissed me off because they had no sense of honor, they wouldn't stick with the home team when things got a little rough. The same is true now.
but if they are twisting off to go run a tequila bar on the beach, that's ok though.
Apologies to the Southerners regarding my alleged dissing of Alabama. My comment, of course, was meant for he rest of the country, specifically the elitists on the coasts. I actually initially was going to insult some real places that would really be offended -- places where, unlike Alabama, things do NOT work, and they can't give a rowdy retort to my insult, or not a justifiable one anyway.
Personally, being a Southern boy myself (seriously) I think y'all should keep the prosperous Alabama a nice secret, lest it end up like Dallas or Central Florida or parts of the Carolinas -- inflated with the people escaping from the Rust Belt and bringing those attitudes you probably so love. Prosperity is nice; too much of it starts to attract people who carry with them the seeds of what wrecked their old state.
And there's worse things than being from a state that has had a bad rep in the rest of the country. I should know - I'm from one. :-) Might go back there one day. Might, in all seriousness, even consider Alabama. And given the choice between 'Bama and most of the "leftie" states in this country, I'll take a frame house the Birmingham suburbs any day.
Whining about whiners, much? Let them relieve the tension; it's better than having a violent revolution and having it turn into a socialist-marxist restructuring.
Here's the best thing to do if an urge like this hits you. Have many children and rear them with rectitude. Encourage them to have many children. This will not guarantee the political results you desire but it betters the odds that stand right now.
This is my country and no politician is going to run me off; nor anyone else.
One big difference between this whining and the 2000/2004 whining is the superior logic. The anti-Bushes threatened to leave the country to sit freezing in the subarctic, a stone's throw from the US border (nobody was planning to move to Thunder Bay, it was all Toronto or Vancouver). The new ones are talking about going hundreds of mile south. No disrespect to the Canadians, but lets compare: frozen tundra vs tropical paradise. Which one do I want?
Switzerland should be a conservative paradise - strong family values and sense of tradition, a gun in every home, orderly people, weak federal government and strong local governments. However, as it is conservative paradise there's a catch - it has a real immigration restriction policy with teeth and they probably won't let you in.
I think based on what's in the article and what I've seen that the whining claim is unfounded. Back in 2004 Alec Baldwin and his ilk truly were whiners. They were throwing tantrums like little children do when they don't get their way. And obviously those people were just blowing hot air because none of them moved to New Zealand.
It seems to me the people we're talking about now aren't going around making a spectacle of themselves and just spouting off. On the contrary, they're quietly studying and researching their future course of action. Remember, John Galt didn't storm out in a huff. He just quietly disappeared somewhere else.
That's not to say I'm advocating leaving or ever would (nor would I rule it out absolutely) but comparing the two sets of people is unfair.
On the contrary, they're quietly studying and researching their future course of action.
Bullcrap. Lefty kooks promised to run away to Canada but didn't. Ron Paul kooks promised to build a cult compound to seal themselves off from the real world and didn't. Now some righty kooks are promising to leave. Betcha they won't except for a handful of mega-rich who want to avoid taxes.
We will look back fondly on the "W" years as a time of small government. I am enjoying the overreaching arrogance of this Seat Warmer In Chief, for the inevitable and overwhelming backlash it will engender.
"Does that 'less communist' extend to free speech, dissent, and the people in prison for it? Does it also refer to the fact that China is still practices centralized government control over the business in their country?
The irony is that we prop up their communist regime with capitalist American dollars and a huge trade imbalance."
Lack of free speech, etc. in China is a function of the authoritarian nature of the government, not the fact that it's communist, the latter being an economic system that pretty much no one in China subscribes to anymore. There is a great deal of free enterprise in China these days, and capitalists joining the nominally "Communist Party," so the amount of centralized government control is dwindling rapidly and gone in some sectors.
As for the US propping China up with American dollars... some would argue that China is currently propping the US up. What happens if they start cashing out their treasury bonds? Or stop buying American debt?
(Full disclosure: I'm an expat living in China. I moved here before Obama won the election, and I still pay American taxes. So much for the great escape....)
"Now some righty kooks are promising to leave."
Who is "promising"? You have no such quotes in your post and neither does the article you link to. I understand your point, but you're not supporting it very well. Here's one of the direct quotes from the linked article, "...he mentioned that he'd recently been looking into property in, yes, Costa Rica." Compare this to Robert Altman in 2004, "U.S. director Robert Altman...said yesterday he would move to France if George W. Bush wins the American presidential election in November." There's no comparison.
Plus, the fact that you're leaping to conclusions that these are "righty kooks", which has no basis in any evidence you cite, makes one wonder about your reading comprehension. Or maybe you're referencing an article you didn't link to. In any event, the author of the article you do link takes great pains to make clear that the people he is referring to aren't political activists or kooks. And, in fact, that's what he found so surprising. That unremarkable people who are working and paying mortgages and attending church are even thinking along those lines was a revelation to him.
I understand your whole "I'm tired of" shtick and I agree with you. People who have been spouting that line the last eight years are tiresome bores. And the sooner that meme is dead and buried the better. But the quality of your argument in this case is really quite weak and not up to the standard of other posts of yours I've admired.
I'm with kurt9: Asia. Cheap, growing (although the slump might hit it hard(er)). I'm earning in yen and loving it, but demographics and national debt show the fun will eventually come to a screeching halt. Many expats in Japan view Thailand as THE place. Of those who've retired there, a third have regretted it; the others are content or better. But it's got instability and a possibly growing Muslim insurrection (currently contained to the south--currently). Marry a local, have kids, build ties, teach English and you can at least scrape by if you've no other income sources.
I read not long ago that the Amish population is growing rather rapidly and spreading outside core areas like PA, IN, and OH. They probably don't vote much, but I'm guessing they're less inclined to vote for the DNC and thus more regulations of their lives and businesses.
I truly believe the solution is to partition the country. The south is still pretty conservative and the north is liberal. Actually that's not correct for, as I heard somewhere else, there are no blue states only red states with blue cities. But once you get outside those cities, people are as conservative as anywhere else. But back to my point. It is constitutional for states to leave the union if a majority of states agree and I see no reason why liberals and conservatives alike wouldn't be happy to separate the union. So lets separate the union into a liberal north and a conservative south. Everybody will be happy.
TO: All
RE: As I Was Saying....
....above, in a comment RE: Maybe....
...the 'indicators' keep coming.
For instance, we have this item....
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/Expanded-Americorps-has-an-authoritarian-feel-41889742.html
I REALLY like the comment about....
"...a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded [as the regular military.]" -- Barack Obama
The police REALLY need 'tanks' and 'infantry fighting vehicles'?
Maybe these people, who are thinking of leaving the country are twigging to THESE issues as well as their concerns about the failing economic situation.
If they are, then they're thinking that at least in Costa Rica the police will not be using AH-64 Apache attack helicopters to conduct a 'no-knock raid' on their house.
I guess they'd use a hellfire missile to open the 'door'....actually the whole front end of the house.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Never settle with a battering ram what you can accomplish it with a precision guided high-explosive munition.]
P.S. I almost missed THIS part....
"...the new program should “combine the best practices of civilian service with the best aspects of military service,” while establishing “campuses” that serve as “operational headquarters,” complete with “superintendents” and “uniforms” for all participants." -- Article cited
I can't WAIT to see all the liberals sending their children off to join what looks, for all the world, to be the REAL Hitler Youth program the new Americorps proposes.
['Hope' you're enjoying the 'change'.]
NoVa, no offense taken; I got your point. I'm in northern Alabama, and it's one of the best-kept secrets in the country.
I can sort of understand people who might feel like they need to do some contingency planning. However, should that three-sigma bad day come, I don't think that going offshore is the right way to handle it. The right way is to create a defensible perimeter within the U.S. A lot of people don't realize it, but today nearly all of the U.S. military assets (troops, bases, weapons, arsenals, and R&D installations) are located in the flyover states. If the Southeast, Midwest, Plains, and Western states combined forces, it would be easy to isolate SoCal and fairly easy to isolate the Northeast. (Not to say that everyone in those areas is bad, certainly not, but those are the areas where America's fifth columnists tend to congregate.) That's an ugly thing to think about, though.
If I were to go expat, I'd probably go to Asia. Costa Rica is nice, but how does an aerospace engineer make a living there?
TO: Dave Cornutt, et al.
RE: The Military Installation Arg
"A lot of people don't realize it, but today nearly all of the U.S. military assets (troops, bases, weapons, arsenals, and R&D installations) are located in the flyover states." -- Dave Cornutt
A bit of military history for your consideration.
There's a military installation just outside of Salt Lake City. Fort Douglas.
It was established shortly after the Mormons settled the area.
Why was it established? It wasn't because of any potential problems with indigenous indians. Although that may have been a polite coat of whitewash on the US military presence. It's real purpose was to make sure the Mormon's didn't get too 'separatist' in their beliefs.
Additionally, many ground combat forces are located in Southern states: 101st Air Assault Div (Kentucky), an Indep Arm Bde (Kentucky), 82d Airborne Div (North Carolina), Camp La Juene (South Carolina), an Indep Inf Bde (Georgia), 25th Inf Div (Georgia), 2d Arm Div (Texas), another Inf Div (Texas).
Probably most of these are hold-overs from the Civil War, but you see a distinct pattern here.
We put military installations where we think they'll be (1) most effective and (2) most beneficial to the immediate area.
Additionally, ever notice the fact that we have a string of Army and Marine installations close to the Mexican border? That includes an entire Army corps located in the original 'break-away' Mexican 'state', i.e., Texas. And that there is a series of major Air Force installations located along a similar line, just back from the line of ground forces installations?
Compare that to the number of Army, Marine and Air Force installations in the states along the Canadian-US border.
Forts Riley and Carson strike me as being 'strategic reserve' installations.
RE: A Defensive Perimeter
You may have a point, but I think that point is not what you think it is.
As for the effectiveness of your suggestion, how does it stand up to the idea that Obama wants a 20,000-strong 'civilian security force' that is just as well 'funded' as the US Military?
Did you follow the link?
If the Americorps proposal for elementary through old age people 'serving' in 'uniforms' strikes me as Hitler Youth come to America, that 20,000-strong 'civilian security force' looks to me to be the Waffen SS.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[We are not so much concerned about what you do, as we are about what you think. -- Nightwatch rep on Bablyon 5]
If your income is portable you can save a bunch moving to another country.
Guy who used to work around the corner from me now works in Mexico.
At a minimum he's no longer paying our state's 6% (effective) income tax.
Or our ridiculous property taxes.
When I retire my "residence" will be in the lowest tax state I can find, but I'll keep property here as my "vacation" house.
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